[Cryptech Core] multiple offers...

[Павел Шатов]

On 29.04.2015 22:16, Peter Stuge wrote:
> Leif Johansson wrote:
>> We seem to have two offers on the table. One from bitsim (english
>> version attached) and one from BMOCon (Joachim can perhaps talk
>> to this company).
>
> I am thoroughly unimpressed by the Bitsim offer.

If I remember correctly, it was back in February, when I told you, that 
you underestimated complexity of Alpha, so you should not be surprised 
by these prices.

> The BMOCon offer looks reasonable:
>
>   40h Completion of 0.007 Alpha Board block diagram, power supply etc.
>   40h Creation of schematic symbols and PCB footprints
>   60h Schematic
> 100h Review system design and schematic
> 160h PCB layout and BOM
>   80h Review PCB and BOM
> ----
> 480h
>
> Schematic and PCB will be created by Bob McDonough.
>
> Estimated completion by Aug 31 assuming early May project start.
>
> PCB manufacturing, parts procurement and assembly *not* included
> but can be offered separately.
>
> Deliverables:
> 1. Proposed system design
> 2. Gerber, PCB and schematic files
> 3. Recommendations PCB/assembly house
>
> Invoices are sent on the last of each month, 30 day term, 8% interest.
>
>
> It is clear from the offer that BMOCon has experience with similar
> projects.

Unfortunately I don't understand Swedish, as far as I understand from 
your translation, MBOCon's price only includes development costs. Does 
BitSim's price include expenses required to manufacture prototypes? They 
are talking about 5(?) prototype boards in their offer. Does their price 
include components, boards and soldering?

I can say, that BitSim's offer is reasonable too. They also understand 
what they are going to do, you can tell this from the following items:

"4. No VHDL-code for the FPGA, nor SW for the processors will be 
developed. Maybe we develop some smaller VHDL/SW-parts for testing of 
the board during board bring-up."

"6. Test results
Within two weeks after BitSim has received the fully assembled boards, 
BitSim delivers the board to the customer, where the integration phase 
with HW, FPGA and processor SW can start. This under the circumstance, 
that, if any errors are located, the board can easily be patched. When 
designing the first version of the board, BitSim will try to design it 
in such a way that it will be easy to debug and to do simple patches."

> However, there is a glaring problem with both offers:
>
> All deliverables are completely proprietary, locked to proprietary
> software packages. Bitsim don't even say which tools: "its own design
> tools" and BMOCon use Cadence OrCAD Capture and Mentor Expedition PCB.

I think, you misunderstood this. They say "BitSim will use its own 
design tools for the board development (schematic/layout), so no
extra cost will be added for this usage." I believe that means, that 
they have already purchased Cadence or Mentor license for their previous 
projects, so we won't have to buy design software for them.

> Proprietary tools mean that re-use of the deliverables is essentially
> only possible for those who already have a license for the respective
> tools. This significantly reduces the value of the deliverables.

Peter, I don't understand, what re-use are you talking about? PCB source 
files are like closed format vector images, you need proprietary tools 
to modify them. Gerber files are like raster images generated from these 
vector sources. I doubt, that anyone will ever want to modify Alpha PCB 
sources, so Gerbers as output are fine. Joachim included GPIO expansion 
connector in his drawing, so end users will be able to develop extension 
boards using whatever design software they want.

--
With best regards,
Pavel Shatov